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 What Gives??

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Should there be another KITO server (probably modified for better graphics)?? Bring back community.
Yes: ONLY if it has like, new stuff
21%
 21% [ 9 ]
Yes: ONLY if it has like, oIT stuff
16%
 16% [ 7 ]
Yes: I don't care if it has new stuff or oIT stuff
56%
 56% [ 24 ]
Nah....
7%
 7% [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 43
 

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TortDoll
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PostSubject: What Gives??   Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:33 pm

So, many of us have noticed (or not), the lack of actual personal 'help' to start a server.

I get it, everything can be accessed 'easily' by searching for keywords, it just takes a bit of 'spit' and 'grit', but here's the thing....

I look through the Basket, I see how much people use to openly help each other and be willing to do things for each other, making helpful programs, giving away some cool stuff freely, all that fun stuff. The point?? To help each other out.

I can't help but notice how everyone demands money now, or has some sort of silly attitude, or at least seems like it, when someone keeps asking for help or where to start... sure, you 'point' them to the right direction, but there is no real guide as to: Okay here is how you start, here are like 432432943 links, here are some tips you need to know/should know.

It's sad really, I mean sure, if you are knowledge in what you do and you want money for it - like you've been doing it for years, or going to school for it, or maybe you know like 80% what you're doing with the IT code - THEN BY ALL MEANS - ask for money.

However.... when others sit there, and they practice with little to no knowledge of what they're doing, or get the "jist", and they know the basics (like adding existing code to their own or w/e... which the 'how-to' can be found here anyways), and you want to charge?? That's when I scratch my head, kudos for trying to make a quick buck, but you probably shouldn't be doing it here (MY OPINION).

KITO is a breed that is beginning to lay dorment in a cold cave somewhere, in other words, it's becoming... well, not that 'active'. We see the demands of the player base, they want new models, new items, new this, new that, yada-yada (more than ever before it seems to satisfy their hunger), but if we worked together more often, instead of sitting there: Oh hey yeah I'll do that.... for like $5, we can't expect much to get done, at least not quickly or.... on a regular basis.

I know, 5 bucks ain't 'much', but exactly.... why are you gonna try to charge a little 5 bucks for your practice. Come on now, stop trying to squeeeeeeeze every last bit ya can, chances are you probably haven't gotten any customers - maybe 1-4 (or maybe more, who knows!!), but meh. Again, I get the whole "Hey, I can probably try and make a quick buck!!", whelp.... all of this charging has kinda made new folk feel helpless when it comes to creating a new server.

Not to mention it seems when someone even asks for help, someone is reluctant in helping them that know the answers - or just don't care enough to help out - or want to charge for helping, which is crap.

NO!! I'm not saying "Omgsh wah, can't afford $5.", realize some people can't, and if you're like "Damn kids." well I mean yeah..... this community is pretty heavy on the teen and young-adult scene, what do you expect?? I suppose if it's your choice to charge, and you're gonna be stubborn about it, then that's you, I just miss when people were more ready to help out (no, I don't mean "point them in the right direction", I mean giving out free things and guides and what not).

NO, I'm not saying: GIVE OUT EVERYTHING FOR FREE YOU SELFISH JERKS, absolutely NOT. I'm just saying: stop being stubborn about trying to make a quick buck or helping someone out. Will you get anything in return?? Maybe.... maybe gratitude, but otherwise no, maybe not, but that might be the point.... helping each other out, not being so damn hostile, not being so: Got money? Sorry can't help ya then.

Anyways, my point: These things, I have noticed, weigh heavily on getting new traffic and having that traffic STICK. Of course this could also mean new people coming in take one look at the site and go: Wtf is this?? *backs out*

I want to see more people working together, voicing their real opinions, and helping out. I've been planing on making an extensive guide on how people can get started and tips that will SERIOUSLY help a new-server-maker out, a lot, we'll see - been super busy and have like.... little motivation.

Oh, and that brings me to my other points....

- If you're busy, and unable to help out a ton, then this probably doesn't apply to you
- If you're dealing with stuff right now, this probably doesn't apply to you either
- It mostly applies to those who blatantly sit there, give some smart-ass answer, or hostile answer, which discourages new-folk like, instantly, or those who PRACTICE and demand money for their PRACTICE.
- Really though, this is just a rant/discussion, NO YOU DO NOT need to defend yourself, Idk why you would, as I did not mention names, I'm talking 'the general public' here or 'general feel' of KITO atm, maybe you got more reasons to try and charge other than "I want a new phone BI so I'm charging." vs "I have bills to pay and I need to eat food."
- DO NOT take this as: You guys suck, cuz ya don't
- If you do provide a lot of help, this probably doesn't apply to you
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:43 pm



THANK YOU


I was really disappointed that after being away from the internet for 2 months, this place didn't look any different from when I left. This place used to get new content almost daily, at one point. What happened to that? I mean, it doesn't have to be that intense but....2 months and nothing? Don't you guys find that a lil odd?
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:36 pm

I'm so glad someone has finally said something and noticed this also happening.
Ive been with this community for years (mainly just been lurking around instead of actually posting anything) and it's kinda sad seeing all this happening honestly?

To be honest, i'm somewhat new to the coding and such when it comes to making your own server and every time i'm building one and come to a part i'm stuck on and can't find any help or resources on here i'm kinda afraid of asking only to get some hostile or sarcastic reply. Because ive seen it happen to other users before when they're calmly and politely asking for something and it's just so...rude?

Also about the money, i completely agree with. If it's something you're skilled in and know all about it, it's perfectly fine to make some cash from it. But making others pay for something just because they don't know how to do something and you do even if it's super simple is just...why?
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Kattington
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:10 pm

I completely agree with your point about people who charge to install free codes released here or similar scenarios. I also wish some people would be a bit nicer in answering questions.
However, as an artist, I disagree with a community that expects talented members to dedicate their time, sometimes many hours or days worth, to release free content that may get stolen. The people who actually do this are great - kudos to them. But many of us don't have the time anymore, or got fed up with the constant attitude of "that model/texture/etc was great, can I have some more for free?" Free content is a rare gift and should not be asked for or expected. I charge for my work because I value my time and gratitude can't pay for things. My point mainly refers to the artwork aspect - though when it comes to coding, if you cannot install the free codes with their precise and specific instructions then frankly you should not be coding. I lurk and help out in support when I can, but I will not release models for free because of the work I poured into them.

-Someone who has been asked for free art one too many times
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TortDoll
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:02 am

Kattington wrote:
I completely agree with your point about people who charge to install free codes released here or similar scenarios. I also wish some people would be a bit nicer in answering questions.
However, as an artist, I disagree with a community that expects talented members to dedicate their time, sometimes many hours or days worth, to release free content that may get stolen. The people who actually do this are great - kudos to them. But many of us don't have the time anymore, or got fed up with the constant attitude of "that model/texture/etc was great, can I have some more for free?" Free content is a rare gift and should not be asked for or expected. I charge for my work because I value my time and gratitude can't pay for things. My point mainly refers to the artwork aspect - though when it comes to coding, if you cannot install the free codes with their precise and specific instructions then frankly you should not be coding. I lurk and help out in support when I can, but I will not release models for free because of the work I poured into them.

-Someone who has been asked for free art one too many times

Right, and again, if you know what you're doing, and you know, you choose to charge, then by all means, I believe you've got a right. As for the artwork, I don't think anyone should be begging or asking for free art like that period, if you have some open slots then hey cool, otherwise no. I hear you on the free art thing, I've been asked/hinted for it, and I've seen others too.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:43 am

I try to help out where I can, but I'm very busy with my own server and so don't have a lot of time for much else here.

There are the people who come on here, all excited to make a server, and don't even bother trying to find any tutorials. They just instantly post asking for help - the same questions that have been answered 50 times before. Someone nice gives them a link that has whatever they need to get started, perhaps a little explanation with it and then pointing out that there are heaps of tutorials if you look. New person posts back 'I looked and found nothing'. NO. Clearly they didn't look at all then and it's no fault of the KITO members if they get a bit mad at the new person who wants everything handed to them on a silver platter. It's hard not to get frustrated by those people.

For those new people that come here and have looked around and genuinely gotten stuck with something then yeah, be civil if you answer. We were all at that point once.

Now, as for a KITO server... it didn't work that well when there was one up. People thought it was an actual server, went hunting, stole items etc. Then there's the fact that you'll have an open game that everyone and their dog is modifying and you have zero idea what they're doing. I know that was the point of the old KITO server, but there are just too many people out there who would ruin it for everyone; hack it etc. just because it's there/because it's KITO. Who wants that extra stress when most of us here have our own servers to worry about?

The simple fact is the people in this community, and that are coming in still, are a different generation with different views and work ethics; along with the fact that they've been raised to expect instant gratification with whatever they want, and they just don't mesh well with the good old-fashioned values you're looking for. You have an entire 2 generations that are incredibly selfish and impatient on average, so while I do agree with you, I think you're expecting too much. You can lead an ox to the water but you can't force it to drink. -shrugs-

I do think it'd be great if everyone was just... nice to each other. That's it.
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TortDoll
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:07 am

"- If you're busy, and unable to help out a ton, then this probably doesn't apply to you
- If you're dealing with stuff right now, this probably doesn't apply to you either"

I know you're one of the folk that are active around here and helpful. ~

Anyways, I'm not talking about those kinds of people, who sit there and don't try, this applies only to those who have actually tried, but perhaps do need a little more help. I've had to bother a LOT of people because I could not find answers I needed, and let me tell you - it's a good thing I have these guys as my contacts on Skype already.

A good, extensive guide would really help people out, that way, instead of throwing random links at people and saying: Good luck, you can throw one link (the guide) to someone, and that way they won't be able to sit there and say: Oh, I tried, without actually doing it - sure - they can say it, but we probably know, at least.... we're like about..... 80% sure that they just didn't look/try.

As for those who.... are obviously not trying, then you do what you can, right?? This really kinda doesn't apply to those guys.

I don't expect too much, I just expect a little more "help your neighbor" atmosphere around here. Yeah, I know, there's new generations flooding in here, but if we don't even try with them, or show them the same kindness we were shown, what are we to expect from them??

I believe nothing is 'too much' when it comes to being friendly and helpful.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:49 am

I know there was a discussion here before about the hostility of KITO members towards the newer ones and those asking for help. Obviously it didn't do all that much good if the topic was brought up again.

I'd love a more friendly atmosphere here as I've spent the past few months only commenting here on stuff I could help with. (Or try to help with XD) Not only because I'm busy, but partly because a good number of posts made seem to invite drama from some corner and I don't want to have to deal with that.

I think it would be nice, and a great community project, if people volunteered to do part of something that would be available for free here when done. Say... one person models, one rigs, one animates, one textures, one does terrain, one adds objects etc. That way the load isn't all on one person.

Some might feel that they should be paid for their time (and rightly so, it's a lot of work), but there are times when people need to realise that money can't buy you happiness and is not the end-all-be-all of life. That feeling you get when you do something for another person is great, especially if they say 'thank you'.

But again, having it all on one person is tough, so maybe for those who would like to do free stuff but don't have the time/skills etc. to do it all themself...well, why not divvy it up? I can texture, do terrain, add map objects and I'm learning animation atm. (Can't rig though, so it'd have to be pre-rigged) I've been itching to do free stuff for a while - those on the KITO Slack chat can attest to that - but I don't have the time or resources to do it all myself so...

Just an idea that seems to fit somewhat with what you're going for here.
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TortDoll
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:27 pm

ObeyTheFist wrote:
I know there was a discussion here before about the hostility of KITO members towards the newer ones and those asking for help. Obviously it didn't do all that much good if the topic was brought up again.

I'd love a more friendly atmosphere here as I've spent the past few months only commenting here on stuff I could help with. (Or try to help with XD) Not only because I'm busy, but partly because a good number of posts made seem to invite drama from some corner and I don't want to have to deal with that.

I think it would be nice, and a great community project, if people volunteered to do part of something that would be available for free here when done. Say... one person models, one rigs, one animates, one textures, one does terrain, one adds objects etc. That way the load isn't all on one person.

Some might feel that they should be paid for their time (and rightly so, it's a lot of work), but there are times when people need to realise that money can't buy you happiness and is not the end-all-be-all of life. That feeling you get when you do something for another person is great, especially if they say 'thank you'.

But again, having it all on one person is tough, so maybe for those who would like to do free stuff but don't have the time/skills etc. to do it all themself...well, why not divvy it up? I can texture, do terrain, add map objects and I'm learning animation atm. (Can't rig though, so it'd have to be pre-rigged) I've been itching to do free stuff for a while - those on the KITO Slack chat can attest to that - but I don't have the time or resources to do it all myself so...

Just an idea that seems to fit somewhat with what you're going for here.

Exactly!! It'd be nice for someone to volunteer or just throw a few things here and there, definitely not like, all of the work, like: Here make this model, rig it, animate it, texture it - do all that k thanks!! Lol

But yeah, when others are able to, it's great....!! ~ <3 <3 c:
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:56 pm

i'd like to see more newer things, because they're always interesting for people. it's only my opinion, act as you wish of course Smile
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:33 am

THANK YOU!!

Somebody FINALLY said this. I pretty much agree with everything Tort's said.

There isn't really much else for me to say, except that I personally can't help out because I literally don't know anything about making IT servers (I'm not really learning either because I'm not going into that field).

But one difference that I've noticed between 2012 and now- People used to be able to send in a compile request, and have it done for free. Now? You can pretty much forget it now.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:07 pm

Meadowstar01 wrote:
THANK YOU!!

Somebody FINALLY said this. I pretty much agree with everything Tort's said.

There isn't really much else for me to say, except that I personally can't help out because I literally don't know anything about making IT servers (I'm not really learning either because I'm not going into that field).

But one difference that I've noticed between 2012 and now- People used to be able to send in a compile request, and have it done for free. Now? You can pretty much forget it now.

Ah, back in the days when RedEye redid the compile. He wanted to see people make something of IT and so he offered to compile servers for people himself for free.

But too many people took advantage of that kindness. Added to that was the fact that tutorials had been written up so people could do it themselves because RedEye was so busy compiling for others that he couldn't really work on anything else.

And so he stopped, and people learned to do it themselves. Those that couldn't (and can't today) really shouldn't be making servers at all as it shows that they do not have the skills required to see the project through. It's a very effective way of weeding out those that want to make a server to be the popular kid - another reason RedEye stopped compiling.

I don't blame him for stopping and learning new things for yourself is a goal everyone should strive for.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:41 pm

This, I agree. My friend got only a link and one person was just pure rude, (Saying if he even turned on the server, or portfowarded) and ended up just saying they won't help 'Noobs'. I try and help to the best of my ability but I'm not the best at explaining. I feel like there should be a playlist of detailed videos giving tips, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:21 pm

The thing is if a person isn't capable of doing something with a clear,simple written topic
I doubt they'll be able to understand anything with a video ^^"
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:54 pm

This might sound stupid, but maybe some people learn a little differently?

Maybe it might be more clear to someone if they see something being done, they can hear the instructions, and they can take as much time as they want to? If somebody doesn't get it even then, then maybe it can be explained a little differently/more simply? Some people may learn better that way than reading a long post, if you know what I mean. Just a thought.

This is KITO- This forum is meant to HELP people who are creating new Impressive Title servers.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:12 pm

Sincerely i've been on kito since 2012, and when i was a kid back then
i didn't bother to read any tutorial out there so i created thread about things that were already answered everywhere, asked everyone about things, and even got banned one time lol (i wasn't good in english tho i created too many thread of my sooo long ago old ass server)
but anyway my points is i know that some tutorials aren't simple but like the "how to compile" one is the easiest thing in the entire world it's just that people doesn't care focusing on something since kito is an helping website they ask questions over and over without checking anything and it has been driving me nuts since some people get to me and ask me "where is the grass density" so i tell them to search by themselves and then "but i read everything and can't find it :c" well i checked by myself by searching "grass density" and found it ! wow ! that was so hard... ^^
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TortDoll
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:36 pm

True, but like I said before, this doesn't really apply to people who don't even try. Razz

You know?? I mean like Obey said, ya can lead a horse to water, but ya can't make him drink it (a horse?? She said something else). Either way, I rarely waste time to someone who has already received detailed help and has't even tried lol.

But for those who do/are trying - it would be super awesome if there was an actual.... step-by-step "I'll hold your hand" guide, as silly as it sounds, lol.

P.S: Unless the explanation is detailed and STEP-BY-STEP, sometimes I have a difficult time to understand and would prefer visuals. Though there are a lot of visuals actually, the ones that I'd prefer like map-making and stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Yes i do understand your points! yes visuals are really important , that's why theres a bunch in my tutorials.

The only tutorials i find hard (that i made) to understand is to make your server online
since peeps doesn't have the same router ect...

Well i hope someone will have the time and courage to do videos step by step xD
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:31 pm

I personally either need a detailed video or have someone teach me by hand. I find using visuals a ton more helpful than reading text because then I can see what I'm supposed to do.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:20 pm

There are different learning styles out there; virtual, kinesthetic, and auditory are the primary ones, with the rest put into subgroups. I know that visually I would be content, and am still bitter about not being able to understand a lot of things as fast as other people out there, which is why I left the server stuff completely: too much drama and competition and it pissed me off because I knew my contributions were going to be A) stolen B) modified and monetized or C) deleted.

I found that within this community, there is no real way to win. I want to charge money for things that a coder can do? It's evil, and I'm a bitter person. I want to stay away from the community? "Not using my skills is a waste".

Just bugs me that people honestly think things happen for free when the real world does not reflect the reality. College students have to get by like anyone else.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:25 am

Darc wrote:
There are different learning styles out there; virtual, kinesthetic, and auditory are the primary ones, with the rest put into subgroups. I know that visually I would be content, and am still bitter about not being able to understand a lot of things as fast as other people out there, which is why I left the server stuff completely: too much drama and competition and it pissed me off because I knew my contributions were going to be A) stolen B) modified and monetized or C) deleted.

I found that within this community, there is no real way to win. I want to charge money for things that a coder can do? It's evil, and I'm a bitter person. I want to stay away from the community? "Not using my skills is a waste".

Just bugs me that people honestly think things happen for free when the real world does not reflect the reality. College students have to get by like anyone else.

As a college student though, I wouldn't recommend IT as any stable money source. If you're experienced enough, though, go for it.... try it out.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:06 pm

I don't mean as a stable money source; I have a job. I guess I mean monetized in order to prevent theft; if people buy something, they then own the rights to it and theft doesn't happen. Does that make sense?
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Mon May 08, 2017 11:43 pm

Darc wrote:
I don't mean as a stable money source; I have a job. I guess I mean monetized in order to prevent theft; if people buy something, they then own the rights to it and theft doesn't happen. Does that make sense?

Yes, in that case I would say it'd be up to the server staff to PAY for the service(s) then, a fee in paying the person they hired to do w/e it is they wanted - so that product is only available to them/is theirs, only.
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PostSubject: Re: What Gives??   Tue May 09, 2017 1:17 am

Darc wrote:
I guess I mean monetized in order to prevent theft; if people buy something, they then own the rights to it and theft doesn't happen.

Copyright doesn't work that way.

All content created by someone is automatically copyrighted to that person as soon as it is no longer an idea but a tangible thing.

If the person made it for someone else then that comes under a contract - the server owner(s) need to speak with the creator to work things out.

This contract could mean that

a) The creator keeps all copyright and has agreed to license out their content to the server owners for use. This license can be revoked if any terms agreed upon are broken.

b) The creator agrees to share copyright with the server owners. This makes all parties responsible for the use, or misuse, of that content.

c) The creator and server owners work out a contract that means all content created by the creator for the sole use of the server owners' server is labelled as belonging solely to the server owners and all the copyright that goes with it.

Most work done by an employee for an employer automatically belongs to the employer - all the rights are taken from the employee, even if they are the creator.

Monetising has nothing to do with copyright. All works done for no one in particluar belong to the creator. All works done by the creator for someone else belong to that someone else unless stated by the terms of a contractual agreement.

If you're looking to do work for a server but don't want to lose the copyright to whatever you create then you NEED to make an agreement with the server owners.

Also, when you sell your content, you can create terms that you are actually only selling a license to that person giving that person permission to use that content they purchased the license for. Most 3D model etc. you can buy on the internet are like this - you don't own the model itself when you buy it, you bought and own a license to use that model.

A lot of people on IT servers only have vague ideas about copyright and how it works, so I hope this helps and please spread the word.

I see a lot of 'dev staff' on servers get upset when a server owner refuses to remove content that dev staff made. Truth is, unless there's a written contract agreed upon by both parties stating that the creator still holds copyright, the server has full rights to keep that content.

People should be aware of this.
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